For Steven Petrov, 2017 was not a year to celebrate.

Both of his parents had died, he was separated from his husband, and his sister Julie had been diagnosed with stage four ovarian cancer.

However, in this unmanageable space of grief, he began to look for a way to find joy.

In his new book, “The Joy You Make: Find the Silver Linings—Even on Your Darkest Days,” Washington Post columnist Petrow explains how he did it—and how we can do it, too.

Here’s what Petrow had to say about finding joy when life gets chaotic, edited for length and clarity:

Kerry Hannon: How do you define joy?

Steven Petrov:The process of researching this book helped me realize that I didn’t really know what joy was.

There is a culture that believes that joy is the fireworks of the Fourth of July. But joy has many different dimensions—peace, delight, exuberance. There are spiritual kinds of joy. There are many, but they all lift us up.

There is an important distinction between happiness and joy. Happiness is eating brownies. Joy is baking a tray of brownies to share. It is about connection—that is a fundamental aspect of joy.

You suggest keeping a gratitude journal. How does this process provide the magic ingredient for building joy?

I was a little worried when I started journaling. Do I have enough things to be grateful for in my life on a daily basis? But I started doing it and I did it religiously. I found that not only do I have big things to be grateful for, but I also have a lot of little things.

Today I am grateful for my dog ​​sitting here. I am grateful that it is sunny. I am grateful for my friends. Sometimes I am grateful for chocolate ice cream.

After three months I noticed that my mood improved. I felt gratitude in my world. I used to write in my journal before going to bed, so I went to bed in a good mood instead of thinking about what went wrong today.

Can a gratitude journal help you love your job?

Definitely. A lot of things in my journal were related to my work. First of all, in the workplace, that sense of connection with coworkers, the feeling of being part of a team.

You write that celebrating someone’s career success can bring you joy. How so?

When you’re happy for other people’s successes, you get a really positive response. It’s a really cool thing—it’s called a “helper’s high.” Another way to do this is to give someone else credit for your success. Catherine Chambliss, a professor of psychology at Ursinus College, calls it “bragitude.” It’s when you tell a colleague how much they contributed to your promotion. Do you like how your garden turned out this year? Mention it to the neighbor who gave you a landscaping idea. Find ways to reflect your joy to someone else.

How can a “sacred pause”—a breath or two that allows us to choose our next action—increase our joy?

The idea is to not be provoked into responding without a moment or pause for reflection. In the workplace, you may have a meeting with a client or your boss, maybe they are criticizing you. The first reaction may be to explode or become defensive. I have found that taking a couple of breaths, just reconfiguring and thinking “what am I trying to say?” is more helpful. It can change your perspective. Gradual changes in the mind can lead us to greater peace and greater joy.

Have a question about retirement? Personal finance? Anything career-related? Click here to message Kerry Hannon.

Steven, I like your take on how learning to play again is fun. Can you expand on that?

It allows us to rediscover our childlike nature. I have a puppy, I lie on the floor with him and just play. How can I not be joyful?

Towards the end of the pandemic, I started playing board games with friends. Sometimes we were competitive; sometimes we were teammates, but there was a sense of being a kid again, and also being unadorned, taking off the masks and just being ourselves, but maybe also just our child selves. As time goes on, we put on more layers.

You extol the joy of doing nothing. How does that work?

My grandmother always told me, “Stevie, busy people are happy people.” So I grew up thinking that meant life was always full of stuff. It wasn’t always the stuff that nourished us. It was kind of a scary process to practice doing nothing. You could sit and meditate. You could lie down on the floor. You could just be present and let whatever’s in your mind say hello.

Can you talk about the joy of taking part in an activity simply because it is enjoyable?

I started playing tennis again three years ago. I stopped when I was a teenager. I got back on the tennis court and I loved it. Now I suck, but I don’t do it because I win. I do it because I’m outside. I’m with other people. And there’s camaraderie, and it’s just cool. Now I understand that there’s virtue in doing something for fun, not because it’s going to get you a better job or make you rich.

You write about how dancing can bring joy. You even have a great playlist in your book for a dance party. Explain!

I’m glad you said that about the playlist. I’m really scared that I have three nieces in their 20s and I’m worried they’ll catch me and say “you old man.”

My friends in Hillsborough, North Carolina, have a dance party at their house every so often. They have a screened-in porch and a disco ball and a fog machine and strobe lights. It’s a euphoric joy. Dancing freely like that, escaping yourself, and also traveling to really happy memories from other dance floors, you have the joy of memories, which is important.

Part of it is the ability to leave our bodies and be less aware of how we appear in the world. The French sociologist Émile Durkheim called it “collective effervescence,” but it’s really a harmony that happens and comes out of the group. This convergence and trust is a fundamental part of joy.

And finally, what joy can we find in growing older?

It’s important to change our thinking to find aspects of aging that can be joyful. Part of that is the wisdom that comes with age. I’m not saying that being over 50 is one big party, but I am saying that being older is very different from being sick. There are many things to celebrate and many things to do.

Regardless of age, people cannot live without joy. We need this light within us to live each day.

Kerry Hannon is a senior columnist at Yahoo Finance. She is a career and retirement strategist and the author of 14 books, including “Checkup After 50: How to Succeed in the New World of Work and “Never too old to get rich.” Follow her on X @kerryhannon.

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